The Upside of Stress by Kelly McGonigal - Book Club with Hannah + Amy | Ep. 2
What if everything you've been told about stress is not exactly true? In this episode, Hannah shares one of her all-time favorite books, The Upside of Stress by Dr. Kelly McGonigal, and makes a pretty convincing case that it's a must-read for everyone. Amy, who just got her copy the night before recording, comes in as the curious newcomer asking Hannah all sorts of good questions.
Together we dig into McGonigal's central argument: that stress isn't something to eliminate, but something to understand and work with. It's hard to believe, but the research says it's true! Hannah talks about how she used to think stress was just something to avoid and how this book completely shifted her perspective. We explore what stress actually does in the body, why your interpretation of those physical sensations matters waaaayyyy more than you'd think, and why trying to live a stress-free life might actually be getting in the way of a living a meaningful one.
We also look at the three conditions that make stress genuinely harmful, Hannah's one non-negotiable takeaway from the book, and why Amy is very glad she finally picked up her own copy.
Not familiar with the book? Dr. McGonigal's TED Talk "How to Make Stress Your Friend" is a great place to start. Want to buy a copy for yourself? Buy it here and your purchase will support us as an Amazon affiliate! Thanks!
This podcast is not a substitute for professional mental health support. Please reach out to a qualified licensed provider if you need help.
Transcript
Hello everyone.
Speaker:Today on, I think I can be happier.
Speaker:We're gonna be talking about one of Hannah's all time favorite
Speaker:books, the Upside of Stress.
Speaker:But before that, don't forget to subscribe.
Speaker:So you get our new episodes right away when they come out.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So I do want to confess right away here at the beginning that I actually,
Speaker:I have not read this book yet, but I did, I did just get it last
Speaker:night, and I, I've just started it.
Speaker:Um, so I'm really excited to dig into it and, you know, hear
Speaker:more about Hannah's take on it.
Speaker:I can say that I feel like I know this.
Speaker:Book already just from conversations with Hannah about it previously.
Speaker:So, yes.
Speaker:So Hannah, um, tell us, tell us why you chose this book.
Speaker:Yeah thanks I know
Speaker:we should maybe we should turn this into a series like Hannah and Amy's book club
Speaker:Oh, I like
Speaker:where, where one of us reads it and then the other one doesn't
Speaker:yes,
Speaker:then we see if we try to con con convince the other person to read it
Speaker:Oh, I like that.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Well you didn't, You didn't have to
Speaker:No.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:to convince me on this one.
Speaker:Yeah this book this book is a i I I believe this book
Speaker:is a must read for everybody
Speaker:and hopefully by the end of the episode everybody else agrees with me too
Speaker:And if you haven't read it yet You'll go out and get it like Amy did So
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:uh, yeah, so I'm super excited
Speaker:to talk about this book because of like the pretty profound impact it has
Speaker:had on my life which kind of happened accidentally we have a very active buy
Speaker:nothing group here on Facebook In the town that I live in it's called Fairfield
Speaker:Shares Shout out to all the admins in the Fairfield Shares group it's like
Speaker:7,000 people strong or something like
Speaker:that.
Speaker:And there's always like yeah it's it's a pretty great group And somebody was
Speaker:giving away the upside of stress which is by Kelly McGonigal and I saw it
Speaker:and I and I hadn't heard of it and I thought huh that's kind of an interesting
Speaker:concept Uh you know I had never really thought that there could be upsides of
Speaker:stress.
Speaker:And so I was kind of curious about it when I was thinking about this today
Speaker:it reminded me of how when I first had that thought I think I can be happier
Speaker:One of my conclusions was that I was
Speaker:gonna be, have to read a lot of books And
Speaker:little did I know that this book would be like what's that word Seminal like
Speaker:a like a seminal um I don't know how to use that word properly but anyway super
Speaker:important book.
Speaker:okay.
Speaker:Yeah
Speaker:So, uh, Yeah, so I'm so happy to talk about it today
Speaker:no, I, I'm so grateful that you, that you stumbled upon it that way.
Speaker:It seems like that was, that was meant to be.
Speaker:So Hannah, I'm just curious though, you know, thinking about, you
Speaker:know, your own relationship with stress, , what was that, what was that
Speaker:like before digging into this book?
Speaker:Yeah Uh I was kind of like I think everybody else you know you
Speaker:think it's something bad to avoid
Speaker:and, uh It's it's funny because in in reflecting on it when I was preparing for
Speaker:our conversation tonight I was thinking about that and thinking about how It It
Speaker:has been something that I've tried to avoid from the advice that I hear Right I
Speaker:mean I feel like most of the advice that you hear are like yeah, you know just like
Speaker:take a bath and have a candle put a candle or get a massage or you know just like
Speaker:De-stress like I feel like that's like a
Speaker:buzzword de-stress
Speaker:And so of course that's when you grow up hearing that and that's kind of what
Speaker:everybody says around you in the media and you know just conversations with
Speaker:people And it's almost like a Just a like a a phrase that people say you know oh
Speaker:I'm so stressed Oh what are you gonna do
Speaker:to not be so stressed I mean and I've said that you
Speaker:know, like my whole like I've just always said that even as a coach I I say that
Speaker:So this book has really helped me kind of shift my perspective a little bit on that
Speaker:what about
Speaker:you?
Speaker:What's your relationship with stress been like
Speaker:I, uh, we're working on it.
Speaker:We,
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:on, on that to be, you know, be a healthier partnership For sure.
Speaker:Hannah, I, I am so grateful that, oh gosh, I can't remember
Speaker:exactly the circumstances.
Speaker:It might have been one of our webinars that we had done together because I,
Speaker:you know, would always share with you how nervous how nervous I would get
Speaker:right before, which is so true for me.
Speaker:, And I remember you saying, you know, maybe think about, you know, that.
Speaker:Nervousness that stress as that you're just, you know, excited about it, you're
Speaker:excited about doing this new thing.
Speaker:And that really stuck with me.
Speaker:Just you, you telling me that.
Speaker:. Of planting that seed of being able to reframe it a little bit.
Speaker:So, thank you for that because I do, I take that with me.
Speaker:I try to get that into my head when I feel those moments coming on, which for
Speaker:me is often in similar situations if I'm doing, you know, a training or having to
Speaker:do, you know, anything kind of like public speaking or doing this podcast even that
Speaker:I really do try to think about it as it's.
Speaker:It's excitement that I'm feeling, , in my body for this new
Speaker:thing and I wanna do a good job.
Speaker:, So yeah, we're I'm working on it.
Speaker:I'm a work in progress for
Speaker:Yeah Yeah.
Speaker:Well we'll
Speaker:definitely talk more about that as we
Speaker:go through the episode So I'm I'm really
Speaker:glad that that resonated with you And I was thinking the first time I heard that
Speaker:I can't remember where I first heard that but I do wonder if it was from from her
Speaker:from Kelly McGonigal yeah it's it's it's good advice When you first hear it you're
Speaker:like nah that's kind of cheesy I don't think that will work But but we'll talk
Speaker:a little bit more in a little bit about why that or like how that can help So
Speaker:yeah, so, so let's talk about this sort of core argument that that Kelly
Speaker:has in her book Dr McGonigal I'm
Speaker:I feel like I know her so well that I just wanna call her Kelly So
Speaker:Kelly, if you're listening Dr McGonigal if you're listening uh,
Speaker:I've seen your Ted talk You seem like you'd be cool with Kelly so I'm
Speaker:gonna trust that and go with Kelly
Speaker:Kelly says that You know that stress isn't inherently bad right Your belief
Speaker:about stress is what determines its impact on you And and it was it's so
Speaker:interesting There's a study uh towards the beginning of the book also towards
Speaker:the beginning of the TED Talk If anybody doesn't wanna read the book you can watch
Speaker:the TED Talk which we will link in the show notes She's got It's a really nice
Speaker:summary and it's actually pretty funny
Speaker:Kelly, you're great on stage
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:she opens with this study showing that people who believed stress was harmful
Speaker:actually had higher mortality rates
Speaker:than people who experienced high stress But didn't believe that it was harmful
Speaker:they they believed it was helpful And those people not only did they not
Speaker:have high mortality rates but they had some of the lowest mortality rates
Speaker:including people with low stress So it
Speaker:really is like a protective factor which is just fascinating to me actually I'm
Speaker:gonna tell you about one more study that Helped I think helps kind of explain
Speaker:like how it's a protect one of the ways I guess it how it is a protective factor
Speaker:this this this was just so fascinating to me So there's a super interesting
Speaker:study with this social stress test which is like the most commonly most you know
Speaker:effective way of measuring people's social stress And the way that the way that the
Speaker:stress test works is you're told that you need to give a speech about your
Speaker:personal strengths and weaknesses You only have three minutes to prepare Then
Speaker:while you're doing the speech you there are people that are watching you and you
Speaker:are told that they're going to like judge you rate you on how well you're doing
Speaker:What they do in addition to that is they like huff and roll their eyes and maybe
Speaker:even make you start over and they're like arms crossed you know just like looking at
Speaker:each other like What is this person doing This person's doing a terrible job and
Speaker:really they're not judges They're they're just hired actors you know that are doing
Speaker:this Then after you do that speech you have to take a math test a timed math
Speaker:test and then they like Say they like give you I think they give you the math
Speaker:thing and then you have to say it and if you mess up you gotta start over again
Speaker:And and so it's like really stressful
Speaker:And I know so in this one study they they they broke the the you know
Speaker:all the Participants in the study into three groups And one group was
Speaker:told just ignore stress The best way
Speaker:to handle stress is to ignore it
Speaker:, Then the second group they played video games to de-stress
Speaker:before they went and did
Speaker:the thing.
Speaker:And then the third group was taught about mindset and about how they were like
Speaker:educated on how stress can be beneficial to you and how you can use that stress
Speaker:response in a helpful way And the first two groups responded equally Their
Speaker:bodies showed a lot of stress reactions including tightening in their blood
Speaker:vessels I can't remember exactly what it is but it's something to do with I don't
Speaker:know something similar to like I don't know like a heart attack or I dunno We
Speaker:might wanna I'm not sure it's something bad for your heart I can't remember I
Speaker:should probably look up the specifics but it's basically the your blood
Speaker:vessels act in a way that is not good at
Speaker:all for your heart
Speaker:And then in the third group that had the education about the mindset and the and
Speaker:how how to use your stress to benefit you Their blood vessels stayed relaxed and
Speaker:they, they actually behaved and looked like blood vessels Look when you
Speaker:are experiencing joy and courage and so you can really imagine that over
Speaker:time this would have like a really direct impact on your heart health
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:which is, It's
Speaker:crazy.
Speaker:And, and it all it is is this like belief and some education
Speaker:around what
Speaker:to do with these yucky feelings that you're having during this uncomfortable
Speaker:situation That's just fascinating
Speaker:It's so fascinating.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Hannah, what did, like, what did you think when you first heard about that?
Speaker:I well I just couldn't
Speaker:believe it.
Speaker:I couldn't believe it I couldn't believe
Speaker:that just your belief about something could change how your blood vessels react
Speaker:Like that sounds
Speaker:kind of crazy
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:but the studies show this I mean both of those studies really support that So
Speaker:it's pretty fascinating.
Speaker:It's, I mean, that, I have to say her first pair her first chapter
Speaker:like sold me I'm like oh yeah
Speaker:I was like I'm in
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm only, a few pages in,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:Well done, Kelly.
Speaker:Well done.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I think one of the I think one of the biggest things that I got out of it is
Speaker:that out out of that um that like little bit of the beginning is that you can
Speaker:actually make a choice about how you react
Speaker:Yeah, and
Speaker:which is crazy.
Speaker:thought about that before,
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Is that something that you had you thought about, like your reaction to
Speaker:stress as being a choice before this?
Speaker:Hell no
Speaker:I don't think so At least
Speaker:not like consciously
Speaker:Right, right.
Speaker:I think And I think I think that's probably like for anybody listening right
Speaker:now who is Feeling some resistance to this idea I think there is a leap of faith that
Speaker:has to be made between learning that and actually putting it into practice
Speaker:And also you need to be able to pause
Speaker:notice, and then make a choice which is like
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:takes some practice I think
Speaker:What about you I mean does that like have you have you noticed that have you
Speaker:ever made a choice about your reaction to something stressful I feel like
Speaker:you probably have cause
Speaker:you're very thoughtful.
Speaker:I.
Speaker:in specific situations.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:I wanna say I, you know, really thinking about stress as we've been talking
Speaker:about, having this conversation.
Speaker:I think for me, the.
Speaker:You know, I'm, I'm very thoughtful about certain situations, like, kind
Speaker:of like that acute stress that I feel coming on where I feel like,
Speaker:okay, I do need to, I need to pause and think about what I need to do.
Speaker:Versus situations of kind of like, you know, some constant stressors,
Speaker:that I think we all have in our lives.
Speaker:I feel like I maybe don't.
Speaker:it as good a job with those type of situations, kind of like that
Speaker:global feeling of stress, whether it's, , family or health related things.
Speaker:, So I think that's definitely where I need to, to kind of dig into
Speaker:for myself a little bit more.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:if that's because I feel like those kind of choices require
Speaker:Maybe like more planning and more
Speaker:decision making and more like setting boundaries and that kind of stuff
Speaker:But like in the moment, as long as you can catch yourself
Speaker:it's so so-called like easier I suppose cause
Speaker:you can identify what needs to be
Speaker:done.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:Yeah, I think that's a good, I think that's a good
Speaker:interpretation of that, Hannah.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:but I, but I think the I think what kind of goes along with that what you said is
Speaker:how, and and this like that connected to this is How that global sort of feeling
Speaker:of stress might make us avoid things
Speaker:because either we're already feeling too stressed out because
Speaker:of just life in general or
Speaker:because it does require some work
Speaker:And so where it might just be like oh well I know that could be in my future but I
Speaker:but I'm just gonna avoid it and not do it
Speaker:Because, because that's gonna add like a whole a whole nother level of stress which
Speaker:actually is not bad for you
Speaker:right.
Speaker:Yeah Yeah
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's kind of a cycle for sure.
Speaker:Somehow.
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:Hannah, I know that you are, you know, you are very like well versed and.
Speaker:How our body stress response and what stress feels like in the body.
Speaker:Um, and I know that you had mentioned that you really, you know, really liked
Speaker:that section in the book, um, you know, that physical interpretation piece,
Speaker:so yeah, tell us more about that.
Speaker:About that piece.
Speaker:I really liked this piece this part because so much of it was
Speaker:Like just really clear education on how to think flexibly which
Speaker:is one of our favorite executive function
Speaker:skills.
Speaker:Um to think flexibly about the sensations that you might feel when you're stressed
Speaker:and how Being able to use that executive function skill to make that choice But
Speaker:if you if you're going to if you want to be able to make that choice well you
Speaker:do need to be able to identify it first And so in the book Kelly walks through
Speaker:like how how the physical sensations of stress maybe like you're racing
Speaker:hard or faster breathing or Heightened alertness how they're actually identical
Speaker:to the sensation of as we were talking about before excitement and courage
Speaker:And so the difference really and truly is just like how you interpret them and you
Speaker:experience that firsthand And I have also experienced that in
Speaker:the same kind of situations And
Speaker:so like your pounding heart can mean and feel like I'm falling apart I can't do
Speaker:this Or you could Think, oh this is my body preparing me to rise to this occasion
Speaker:to rise to this challenge And and I and I just I wanted to read this one quote I
Speaker:I I liked it so much I typed it out in my notes but she says and this is just such a
Speaker:it's it's just such like a a nice overview of that She says whatever the sensations
Speaker:of stress are worry less about trying to make them go away and focus more on
Speaker:what you are going to do with the energy strength and drive that stress gives you
Speaker:Your body is providing you access to all your resources to help you rise to this
Speaker:challenge Instead of taking a deep breath to calm down take a deep breath To sense
Speaker:the energy that is available to you And I just love that I love that And then
Speaker:she goes on to say
Speaker:that you can like use that energy to
Speaker:you know, ask yourself like what do I need right now What can I do
Speaker:to reach this goal to to accomplish this task to whatever it is
Speaker:It's just so cool to me that you can actually have that choice And
Speaker:like I was just saying before like
Speaker:we have that knowledge and understanding about stress about how it feels in our
Speaker:bodies Then we can practice like pausing and noticing and and actually trusting
Speaker:ourselves And this amazing life force that our bodies have within it to move
Speaker:through it and do the thing It's pre it's
Speaker:just so cool It's so cool
Speaker:to me
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:you, I'm so glad you included that quote, Hannah.
Speaker:I also wanna point out a section that I am actually gonna turn to
Speaker:If you have the paperback version of the book there's and I'll like hold it
Speaker:up to the camera There's um this this page that on 56 and 57 you can see it's
Speaker:like a little box She has all these like activity boxes throughout which is really
Speaker:cool, but in this activity box she has On the left it says the stress response
Speaker:helps you rise to the challenge connect with others and learn and grow And then
Speaker:she goes through and lists how rising to the challenge helps you like focuses your
Speaker:attention heightens your senses increases motivation mobilizes energy And then
Speaker:on the right she says how you know it's happening You know you notice your heart
Speaker:pounding, your body sweating your breath quickening you're mentally
Speaker:focused you feel energized whatever So All of those things If you don't
Speaker:if you don't realize that you have a choice in that moment those that could
Speaker:fail you right I mean that could like
Speaker:totally take you out and just be like I
Speaker:can't do this.
Speaker:Like I can't handle this sensation of my heart I can't hand I'm
Speaker:gonna pass out or whatever
Speaker:But if you realize like wait a second I can use this to help
Speaker:me do a great job in this or at least just get through it and then, you know
Speaker:I don't know It's just it's so cool
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:I. Yeah, I think it, it's, it's really important to note those physical
Speaker:sensations because, you know, like we talked about earlier, that I
Speaker:think we are conditioned to, yeah, that increase in heart rate is,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:a positive thing.
Speaker:We're
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:to that being this, the stress response.
Speaker:But, yeah.
Speaker:So Hannah, like what about you?
Speaker:Like, how do you experience those physical sensations of stress?
Speaker:Like what do you notice
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Mm-hmm Yeah Um for me it's like this
Speaker:just like this like uncomfortable sort of vibration I always
Speaker:describe it as a vibration
Speaker:I don't really know how else to describe it but it feels like that just like
Speaker:tension I I don't like it at all
Speaker:And I was actually just talking to my mom recently and I realized like
Speaker:I felt it as a child but I didn't know what it was so I thought I
Speaker:was just sick
Speaker:and Yeah.
Speaker:And so it's so interesting now to as an adult be like oh that's who
Speaker:that was Oh yeah yeah yeah yeah I
Speaker:you know, I was, I was Thinking about this conversation I had with my therapist
Speaker:recently and I was telling her about that sensation and this that like anxiety that
Speaker:I feel and I and I was saying it's I think it's from not feeling confident about
Speaker:doing a good job at the thing whatever whatever like the thing of the day is that
Speaker:I'm feeling anxious about And
Speaker:she pointed out that it's not it's not confidence, it's actually just my
Speaker:nervous system having a reaction and
Speaker:And then she said there's something you can do about it And I was like
Speaker:oh okay What And she's like you just push through and you do the thing
Speaker:that's what, that's what this is it
Speaker:that's this whole book is just like pushing through and doing the thing anyway
Speaker:cause then you learn that you can do it
Speaker:So Hannah, I might, I might butcher this quote, but what is, is it Action.
Speaker:Action relieves anxiety?
Speaker:I
Speaker:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Yeah
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:When you were, earlier when you mentioned like doing like the webinars or the
Speaker:trainings I remember when I started doing them And and even doing focus forward
Speaker:like at the beginning of focus forward
Speaker:back in 2022.
Speaker:So it must have been in 2022 cause I think I started doing the podcast
Speaker:I mean the webinars around then too
Speaker:and I remember I would just like dread it all day I would dread either
Speaker:recording an episode doing an interview or I would dread doing a webinar
Speaker:And and then I realized that it was kind of like ruining my days And
Speaker:then, and then I just and then I realized wait I do have a choice in
Speaker:this I can decide to feel excited And then I was able to then use that energy
Speaker:to like help myself prepare more And I
Speaker:would still feel nervous of course right Because I wanted to do a good job
Speaker:But my experience like leading up to it the in the day and the days before just
Speaker:completely changed Like I was able to really like actually do something and
Speaker:focus and work to to to make sure that I was super prepared and and it just
Speaker:it just reminds me so much of like how you just You do you really do have to
Speaker:just push through and do it cause over the years I got to the point where all
Speaker:I would ever say is I'm excited And I
Speaker:remember we would always like look at my I would always like look at my
Speaker:heart rate before a webinar and it was always like 95 you know it was high but
Speaker:then I realized that's just cause I was like excited
Speaker:Right,
Speaker:I mean, I could have been like oh crap I'm gonna do a terrible job because
Speaker:it's 95 Like no wait I'm excited and
Speaker:and I know it's gonna go down once we start so
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:And yeah, just like I mentioned earlier, and I, I so appreciate
Speaker:you sharing that with me.
Speaker:You know, when I was in, you
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:situation with you, that was so helpful just to, to kind of have that little,
Speaker:like, oh, well, there's a different way to, to think about what this means.
Speaker:Um, so
Speaker:Well, I'm
Speaker:so glad you said that because one thing that I that is really interesting is
Speaker:that part of one, part of what our stress response Prompts us to want to do And
Speaker:what we really should do for maximum benefit is to connect with others And
Speaker:That is because of oxytocin which
Speaker:is a stress hormone and it makes us want to be near others to get like
Speaker:help from them and get support from them And so that's cool that you
Speaker:that we were able to do that for each other So and it
Speaker:was, yeah, and it is always Easier right When you're doing
Speaker:something scary with someone else
Speaker:and it and and I and if you're a focus forward listener then you're gonna be
Speaker:like oh my God Hannah just says this quote all the time But it it is it is
Speaker:like it's like my guiding principle throughout my entire life is something
Speaker:that the psychologist Susan David said which is discomfort is the price of
Speaker:admission to a meaningful life And that is just like This in a nutshell you know
Speaker:I mean how much meaning you and I have gotten I mean we are literally sitting
Speaker:here together having this conversation today because we both pushed through
Speaker:the discomfort of of Stepping really far out of our comfort zones and doing
Speaker:something completely new in in doing the that web that those webinars
Speaker:together I mean that that is a huge reason why we're here today or why
Speaker:not why we're here today but how
Speaker:we have the, the courage to be here today
Speaker:Right, right.
Speaker:Yeah, and I think that that just that idea that, you know, a meaningful life,
Speaker:you know, is, is a stressful life.
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:Um, I really think that, you know, that reframe is, you
Speaker:know, just changes everything.
Speaker:I mean I
Speaker:suppose you could just go through the rest of your life without without
Speaker:experience that discomfort experiencing that discomfort But I well first of
Speaker:all according to that study you're not gonna live as long as everybody else
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Word of caution, everyone.
Speaker:So
Speaker:look for meaning Please look for
Speaker:meaning people.
Speaker:I know.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:get uncomfortable
Speaker:Yeah Yeah But um
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean it's it's I don't know Life is just more fun when it has more meaning
Speaker:so.
Speaker:Yeah, Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I getting, keep trying new things.
Speaker:And the other thing that she said which you know which is you
Speaker:know I guess you could say well I don't wanna have stress in my life
Speaker:But that is just impossible Right
Speaker:Life.
Speaker:Is inherently stressful I mean it's so unpredictable and
Speaker:it's just, there's literally no way to avoid it and so and what she says
Speaker:which I love is the goal is not a stress-free life cause that's not
Speaker:possible.
Speaker:It's a
Speaker:life where you have the tools the self-trust to move through stress and
Speaker:then move towards what matters to you
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:I love it
Speaker:Kelly has a section where she that asks like what is the cost of avoiding
Speaker:stress?
Speaker:And and I love she she you know lists missed opportunities
Speaker:avoidant coping like so like coping mechanisms that aren't super
Speaker:helpful and limiting your future
Speaker:You know, limiting the you know I guess it missed opportunity goes
Speaker:right along with missed opportunities
Speaker:but it's just you know it's you, like I said that's just more fun It's
Speaker:more interesting Life is a lot more
Speaker:interesting when you learn to trust yourself and take those risks Yeah
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And Hannah, I'm just curious like what, are there things that you have like
Speaker:tried to avoid in the past because you know, you were concerned about
Speaker:them being too stressful for you?
Speaker:Oh yeah I mean I, I
Speaker:like struggle with this every day I I I sometimes um I ask myself like I can't
Speaker:can't do hard things But but then I have some evidence of having done some hard
Speaker:things, so I must be
Speaker:able to, but yeah, I mean there's so much that I have avoided uh you know
Speaker:over my life But it's interesting because I've actually also taken some really
Speaker:big risks and gone through like really I have kids That's super stressful
Speaker:Um, and also when I was 22 I moved by myself from the eastern most
Speaker:point of Massachusetts to the Western most point of California by
Speaker:myself when I was 22 Like how did
Speaker:my parents let me do that
Speaker:So.
Speaker:imagine?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So I don't know I mean apparently I can do stressful things
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:on the other side.
Speaker:I mean moving to California was like the best that really I mean
Speaker:I met my husband there It was a
Speaker:great choice.
Speaker:Uh, Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah, What about you
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Thinking about, a previous job that I had that when, you know, I realized.
Speaker:It was no longer, no longer good for me to stay in.
Speaker:And it took me a really long time to kinda get the courage to make a change
Speaker:because that was so stressful to think about like all the what ifs, you
Speaker:Hmm.
Speaker:along with that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:after you've been in a job for, you know, a number of years, , it's,
Speaker:it's hard to make that change.
Speaker:So.
Speaker:It.
Speaker:I was highly stressed, for a period just trying to make that decision.
Speaker:And then, you know, once I was on the other side of it, it was like, oh, this
Speaker:actually feels like the right choice,
Speaker:Yeah
Speaker:Yeah Yep
Speaker:Yep.
Speaker:That's great
Speaker:One of the strategies that she brings up in the second half of the book uh
Speaker:which is about you know about that that kind of actions that you can
Speaker:take to practice and get better at benefiting from stress one of the
Speaker:things is choosing to find an upside in adversity And so you know looking back
Speaker:on the experience like did you find a sense of personal strength or like an
Speaker:increased appreciation for life or I don't know spiritual growth or making
Speaker:new connections with people And so and writing it down and really acknowledging
Speaker:and recognizing What you got out of that stressful experience So I bet
Speaker:you got a lot out of that experience
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:Definitely.
Speaker:Yes it was stressful to go through it but I bet you that the stress of going
Speaker:through it and getting out of it was way more helpful and beneficial than
Speaker:the stress of staying in the
Speaker:job and just like avoiding it and putting up with it And
Speaker:then I bet you had no relaxed blood vessels
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I found myself, I found that getting harder and harder to achieve, so
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well good
Speaker:job, Amy.
Speaker:I'm glad you got outta that.
Speaker:So having having gone through the discomfort of of doing webinars and
Speaker:doing trainings and doing the podcasts has has that experience led you to
Speaker:think about pursuing greater challenges or different challenges in your life
Speaker:or maybe being more open to them
Speaker:Uh, definitely being more open to them.
Speaker:Um, yeah, I, I definitely.
Speaker:It's reassuring to know that I can experience that level of
Speaker:stress and do these new things.
Speaker:And, you know, I can honestly say that now.
Speaker:Those are all things that I enjoy doing very much
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:so, I'm, I'm definitely open, you know, open to other, possibilities.
Speaker:So I'll see
Speaker:That's awesome.
Speaker:you throw at me next, Hannah.
Speaker:Yes shenanigans more shenanigans
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Or
Speaker:if anybody's listening and you also have a podcast invite Amy on
Speaker:That's too far, Hannah.
Speaker:Oh okay Next time
Speaker:next episode, she'll be ready
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:A little
Speaker:Uh, yes Yeah So just moving on to the second part of the book
Speaker:uh, which is Transforming Stress So it's really like how you kind of put
Speaker:it all into practice although I feel like I learned so much of how to put it
Speaker:in practice from the first half So the second half just like really strengthens
Speaker:it and really shows you how to use that stress as like energy and connection and
Speaker:meaning, rather just like surviving through it so there's like subsections of
Speaker:the of the second section She has these little callout boxes that have a strategy
Speaker:or two for each section And so the one that I shared earlier like how to you
Speaker:know how to get Something good out of adversity And so each section has like
Speaker:a really just concrete strategy that's not too doesn't take too long None of
Speaker:them are too complicated and they're very forward thinking you know act activities
Speaker:And I I really I really really like them So but I I don't often read conclusions
Speaker:to books because I don't know with my A DHD I'm just kind of done by then
Speaker:But I am so glad that I read the conclusion because there was something
Speaker:that she talked about that I really wanted to that really resonated with me
Speaker:and I really wanted to mention and she said that now as a researcher she cause
Speaker:she's always researched stress and she always Was like stress is bad stress is
Speaker:bad And now she's a lot more interested in understanding how the stance we take
Speaker:towards stress matters right That belief
Speaker:And so now she's saying a better question to ask rather than is it good or is it
Speaker:bad The question is do I believe that I have the capacity to transform stress into
Speaker:something good And the science tells us that stress is likely to be harmful when
Speaker:three things are true You feel inadequate to it It isolates you from others
Speaker:It feels utterly meaningless and against your will
Speaker:And so when you accept and embrace stress as part of your life that
Speaker:self-doubt so that number one you feel inadequate becomes confidence
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That fear becomes courage The isolation that you feel allows you to Become
Speaker:connected to others and then that meaninglessness and the it's against
Speaker:your will That suffering gives rise to meaning It gives you agency feeling like
Speaker:you have some power to get through it and the stress is still there but your
Speaker:body's reaction to it your experience of it is completely different and
Speaker:that I mean I'm making it sound like it's so easy This is really hard work
Speaker:And I think it's really worth it I mean I know it's worth it
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I mean, Hannah, like you said, it's like stress isn't going anywhere, you know?
Speaker:So I
Speaker:Yeah
Speaker:think it's worth it.
Speaker:Mm-hmm
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:so
Speaker:Hannah, I, I am curious, like if you.
Speaker:there's just one thing from this book that you feel like we need to
Speaker:remember, you know, what is that one?
Speaker:One takeaway?
Speaker:I think I would say that We have a lot more agency in how we how we react to
Speaker:stress or how we use stress We have we have a lot of power there and I think
Speaker:we are denying ourselves a lot of power
Speaker:by not, uh, by by not you know by not taking advantage
Speaker:of that It's a superpower I
Speaker:guess, but
Speaker:you gotta know about it So
Speaker:go read the
Speaker:book or at least watch the TED
Speaker:Talk.
Speaker:yes,
Speaker:Yeah
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:So that's my review of Kelly McGonigal's book It's a good
Speaker:one.
Speaker:Thanks, Kel.
Speaker:Now we're on nickname basis
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:she'll reach out.
Speaker:Thank you Dr McGonigal I really I Your your book has changed my life
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm so excited, so excited to read it.
Speaker:So as we are ending, um, every episode, um, it's time to get real for a minute.
Speaker:So yeah, what's real for us this week?
Speaker:So, Hannah, what are you gonna choose today?
Speaker:Something that's been hard lately, something that you're working towards
Speaker:or something that's bringing you joy, something you're looking forward to.
Speaker:I am going to say that I have been working towards lifting heavier weights at the gym
Speaker:and this week I went up to the next weight in all the activ all the exercises that
Speaker:I did except for one And uh and I did it
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:'cause like as we age our we're losing muscle fast
Speaker:and our bones are getting weak, so you gotta like pick
Speaker:up heavy stuff all the time
Speaker:I know.
Speaker:Oh my goodness.
Speaker:I,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I need, to get back on that.
Speaker:Yes
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Congratulations though.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Thank you What
Speaker:about you?
Speaker:all right.
Speaker:Um, okay.
Speaker:Something that's been hard lately for me this week.
Speaker:Um, sleep has not been my friend this week, so,
Speaker:that's rough
Speaker:because I know how important it is, that does add a little additional
Speaker:stress because I know that I need it.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:that's not a helpful you to look at it.
Speaker:So I'm working on it.
Speaker:I'm working on it.
Speaker:I, um, have a plan tonight to make it better.
Speaker:So that's the mindset I'm going with.
Speaker:Nice Nice.
Speaker:Good luck
Speaker:Okay guys uh we almost just ended without doing the ending someday, Amy
Speaker:We'll we'll get this right So thanks for listening at checkout the show notes
Speaker:for more And as always just a reminder that this podcast is not a substitute
Speaker:for professional mental health support So please please take care of yourself
Speaker:and reach out to a qualified licensed provider for help if you need support
Speaker:We'd love to hear from you.
Speaker:You can visit our website.
Speaker:I can be happier.com and sign up for our newsletter there or shoot us an
Speaker:email at hello at I can be happier.com.
Speaker:Thanks for listening.
